diff --git a/src/Umbraco.Core/Models/PublicAccessEntry.cs b/src/Umbraco.Core/Models/PublicAccessEntry.cs
index 1ed15a8fb4..5989f885cb 100644
--- a/src/Umbraco.Core/Models/PublicAccessEntry.cs
+++ b/src/Umbraco.Core/Models/PublicAccessEntry.cs
@@ -110,6 +110,12 @@ namespace Umbraco.Core.Models
             _ruleCollection.Clear();
         }
 
+
+        internal void ClearRemovedRules()
+        {
+            _removedRules.Clear();
+        }
+
         [DataMember]
         public int LoginNodeId
         {
diff --git a/src/Umbraco.Core/Persistence/Repositories/PublicAccessRepository.cs b/src/Umbraco.Core/Persistence/Repositories/PublicAccessRepository.cs
index 4ed29abd13..32a9d384af 100644
--- a/src/Umbraco.Core/Persistence/Repositories/PublicAccessRepository.cs
+++ b/src/Umbraco.Core/Persistence/Repositories/PublicAccessRepository.cs
@@ -44,10 +44,9 @@ namespace Umbraco.Core.Persistence.Repositories
             {
                 sql.Where("umbracoAccess.id IN (@ids)", new { ids = ids });
             }
-
-            sql.OrderBy<AccessDto>(x => x.NodeId, SqlSyntax);
-
+            
             var factory = new PublicAccessEntryFactory();
+            //MUST be ordered by this GUID ID for the AccessRulesRelator to work
             var dtos = Database.Fetch<AccessDto, AccessRuleDto, AccessDto>(new AccessRulesRelator().Map, sql);
             return dtos.Select(factory.BuildEntity);
         }
@@ -59,6 +58,7 @@ namespace Umbraco.Core.Persistence.Repositories
             var sql = translator.Translate();
 
             var factory = new PublicAccessEntryFactory();
+            //MUST be ordered by this GUID ID for the AccessRulesRelator to work
             var dtos = Database.Fetch<AccessDto, AccessRuleDto, AccessDto>(new AccessRulesRelator().Map, sql);
             return dtos.Select(factory.BuildEntity);
         }
@@ -70,7 +70,8 @@ namespace Umbraco.Core.Persistence.Repositories
                 .From<AccessDto>(SqlSyntax)
                 .LeftJoin<AccessRuleDto>(SqlSyntax)
                 .On<AccessDto, AccessRuleDto>(SqlSyntax, left => left.Id, right => right.AccessId)
-                .OrderBy(new string[] { "umbracoAccess.id" });
+                //MUST be ordered by this GUID ID for the AccessRulesRelator to work
+                .OrderBy<AccessDto>(dto => dto.Id, SqlSyntax);
 
             return sql;
         }
@@ -111,6 +112,11 @@ namespace Umbraco.Core.Persistence.Repositories
             {
                 rule.AccessId = entity.Key;
                 Database.Insert(rule);
+                //update the id so HasEntity is correct
+                var entityRule = entity.Rules.First(x => x.Key == rule.Id);
+                entityRule.Id = entityRule.Key.GetHashCode();
+                //double make sure that this is set since it is possible to add rules via ctor without AddRule
+                entityRule.AccessEntryId = entity.Key;
             }
 
             entity.ResetDirtyProperties();
@@ -131,7 +137,7 @@ namespace Umbraco.Core.Persistence.Repositories
             {
                 if (rule.HasIdentity)
                 {
-                    var count = Database.Update(dto.Rules.Single(x => x.Id == rule.Key));
+                    var count = Database.Update(dto.Rules.First(x => x.Id == rule.Key));
                     if (count == 0)
                     {
                         throw new InvalidOperationException("No rows were updated for the access rule");
@@ -157,6 +163,8 @@ namespace Umbraco.Core.Persistence.Repositories
                 Database.Delete<AccessRuleDto>("WHERE id=@Id", new {Id = removedRule});
             }
 
+            entity.ClearRemovedRules();
+
             entity.ResetDirtyProperties();
         }
 
diff --git a/src/Umbraco.Tests/Persistence/Repositories/PublicAccessRepositoryTest.cs b/src/Umbraco.Tests/Persistence/Repositories/PublicAccessRepositoryTest.cs
index 4fa212f9bc..00a508dee9 100644
--- a/src/Umbraco.Tests/Persistence/Repositories/PublicAccessRepositoryTest.cs
+++ b/src/Umbraco.Tests/Persistence/Repositories/PublicAccessRepositoryTest.cs
@@ -154,36 +154,61 @@ namespace Umbraco.Tests.Persistence.Repositories
         [Test]
         public void Get_All()
         {
-            var content = CreateTestData(3).ToArray();
+            var content = CreateTestData(30).ToArray();
 
             var provider = new PetaPocoUnitOfWorkProvider(Logger);
             var unitOfWork = provider.GetUnitOfWork();
             using (var repo = new PublicAccessRepository(unitOfWork, CacheHelper, Logger, SqlSyntax))
-            {                
-                var entry1 = new PublicAccessEntry(content[0], content[1], content[2], new[]
+            {
+                var allEntries = new List<PublicAccessEntry>();
+                for (int i = 0; i < 10; i++)
                 {
-                    new PublicAccessRule
+                    var rules = new List<PublicAccessRule>();
+                    for (int j = 0; j < 50; j++)
                     {
-                        RuleValue = "test",
-                        RuleType = "RoleName"
-                    },
-                });
-                repo.AddOrUpdate(entry1);
+                        rules.Add(new PublicAccessRule
+                        {
+                            RuleValue = "test" + j,
+                            RuleType = "RoleName" + j
+                        });
+                    }                    
+                    var entry1 = new PublicAccessEntry(content[i], content[i+1], content[i+2], rules);
+                    repo.AddOrUpdate(entry1);                    
+                    unitOfWork.Commit();
+                    allEntries.Add(entry1);
+                }
 
-                var entry2 = new PublicAccessEntry(content[1], content[0], content[2], new[]
+                //now remove a few rules from a few of the items and then add some more, this will put things 'out of order' which 
+                //we need to verify our sort order is working for the relator
+                for (int i = 0; i < allEntries.Count; i++)
                 {
-                    new PublicAccessRule
+                    //all the even ones
+                    if (i % 2 == 0)
                     {
-                        RuleValue = "test",
-                        RuleType = "RoleName"
-                    },
-                });
-                repo.AddOrUpdate(entry2);
-                
-                unitOfWork.Commit();
+                        var rules = allEntries[i].Rules.ToArray();
+                        for (int j = 0; j < rules.Length; j++)
+                        {
+                            //all the even ones
+                            if (j % 2 == 0)
+                            {
+                                allEntries[i].RemoveRule(rules[j]);
+                            }
+                        }
+                        allEntries[i].AddRule("newrule" + i, "newrule" + i);
+                        repo.AddOrUpdate(allEntries[i]);
+                        unitOfWork.Commit();
+                    }
+                }
 
                 var found = repo.GetAll().ToArray();
-                Assert.AreEqual(2, found.Count());
+                Assert.AreEqual(10, found.Length);
+
+                foreach (var publicAccessEntry in found)
+                {
+                    var matched = allEntries.First(x => x.Key == publicAccessEntry.Key);
+
+                    Assert.AreEqual(matched.Rules.Count(), publicAccessEntry.Rules.Count());
+                }
             }
         }