diff --git a/src/Umbraco.Web.UI/Umbraco.Web.UI.csproj b/src/Umbraco.Web.UI/Umbraco.Web.UI.csproj
index 7d74056920..fbf2ddf22d 100644
--- a/src/Umbraco.Web.UI/Umbraco.Web.UI.csproj
+++ b/src/Umbraco.Web.UI/Umbraco.Web.UI.csproj
@@ -50,6 +50,9 @@
     <Reference Include="ImageProcessor.Web, Version=4.8.4.0, Culture=neutral, processorArchitecture=MSIL">
       <HintPath>..\packages\ImageProcessor.Web.4.8.4\lib\net45\ImageProcessor.Web.dll</HintPath>
     </Reference>
+    <Reference Include="Log4Net.Async, Version=2.0.4.0, Culture=neutral, processorArchitecture=MSIL">
+      <HintPath>..\packages\Log4Net.Async.2.0.4\lib\net40\Log4Net.Async.dll</HintPath>
+    </Reference>
     <Reference Include="Microsoft.CSharp" />
     <Reference Include="Microsoft.IO.RecyclableMemoryStream, Version=1.2.2.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=31bf3856ad364e35, processorArchitecture=MSIL">
       <HintPath>..\packages\Microsoft.IO.RecyclableMemoryStream.1.2.2\lib\net45\Microsoft.IO.RecyclableMemoryStream.dll</HintPath>
@@ -1085,7 +1088,6 @@ xcopy "$(ProjectDir)"..\packages\SqlServerCE.4.0.0.1\x86\*.* "$(TargetDir)x86\"
   </ProjectExtensions>
   <Import Project="$(MSBuildProjectDirectory)\..\umbraco.presentation.targets" Condition="$(BuildingInsideVisualStudio) != true" />
   <Import Project="$(SolutionDir)umbraco.presentation.targets" Condition="$(BuildingInsideVisualStudio) == true" />
-  
   <PropertyGroup Condition="$(WebPublishingTasks) == '' and Exists('$(MSBuildExtensionsPath)\Microsoft\VisualStudio\v15.0\Web\Microsoft.Web.Publishing.Tasks.dll')">
     <WebPublishingTasks>$(MSBuildExtensionsPath)\Microsoft\VisualStudio\v15.0\Web\Microsoft.Web.Publishing.Tasks.dll</WebPublishingTasks>
   </PropertyGroup>
diff --git a/src/Umbraco.Web.UI/config/log4net.Release.config b/src/Umbraco.Web.UI/config/log4net.Release.config
index 0e93b7122f..5a668d95bb 100644
--- a/src/Umbraco.Web.UI/config/log4net.Release.config
+++ b/src/Umbraco.Web.UI/config/log4net.Release.config
@@ -1,6 +1,24 @@
 <?xml version="1.0"?>
 <log4net>
-  
+
+  <!--
+    note - if log4net is not logging at all
+
+    set <log4net debug="true"> above
+    set web.config with
+
+    <system.diagnostics>
+      <trace autoflush="true">
+        <listeners>
+          <add
+            name="textWriterTraceListener"
+            type="System.Diagnostics.TextWriterTraceListener"
+            initializeData="c:\path\to\log4net.txt" />
+        </listeners>
+      </trace>
+    </system.diagnostics>
+  -->
+
   <root>
     <priority value="Info"/>
     <appender-ref ref="AsynchronousLog4NetAppender" />
@@ -27,6 +45,5 @@
   <logger name="NHibernate">
     <level value="WARN" />
   </logger>
-  
-  
+
 </log4net>
diff --git a/src/Umbraco.Web.UI/config/log4net.config b/src/Umbraco.Web.UI/config/log4net.config
index fae14f3038..c10857a217 100644
--- a/src/Umbraco.Web.UI/config/log4net.config
+++ b/src/Umbraco.Web.UI/config/log4net.config
@@ -1,6 +1,24 @@
 <?xml version="1.0"?>
 <log4net>
 
+  <!--
+    note - if log4net is not logging at all
+
+    set <log4net debug="true"> above
+    set web.config with
+
+    <system.diagnostics>
+      <trace autoflush="true">
+        <listeners>
+          <add
+            name="textWriterTraceListener"
+            type="System.Diagnostics.TextWriterTraceListener"
+            initializeData="c:\path\to\log4net.txt" />
+        </listeners>
+      </trace>
+    </system.diagnostics>
+  -->
+
   <root>
     <priority value="Debug"/>
     <appender-ref ref="AsynchronousLog4NetAppender" />
@@ -28,5 +46,4 @@
     <level value="WARN" />
   </logger>
 
-
 </log4net>
\ No newline at end of file
diff --git a/src/Umbraco.Web.UI/packages.config b/src/Umbraco.Web.UI/packages.config
index 51dff177aa..896746652f 100644
--- a/src/Umbraco.Web.UI/packages.config
+++ b/src/Umbraco.Web.UI/packages.config
@@ -9,6 +9,7 @@
   <package id="ImageProcessor.Web" version="4.8.4" targetFramework="net461" />
   <package id="ImageProcessor.Web.Config" version="2.3.0.0" targetFramework="net461" />
   <package id="log4net" version="2.0.8" targetFramework="net461" />
+  <package id="Log4Net.Async" version="2.0.4" targetFramework="net461" />
   <package id="Lucene.Net" version="3.0.3" targetFramework="net461" />
   <package id="Lucene.Net.Contrib" version="3.0.3" targetFramework="net461" />
   <package id="Microsoft.AspNet.Identity.Core" version="2.2.1" targetFramework="net461" />
diff --git a/src/Umbraco.Web/Umbraco.Web.csproj b/src/Umbraco.Web/Umbraco.Web.csproj
index 894a2c3be7..050cab8d3d 100644
--- a/src/Umbraco.Web/Umbraco.Web.csproj
+++ b/src/Umbraco.Web/Umbraco.Web.csproj
@@ -73,6 +73,7 @@
     <PackageReference Include="LightInject.Web" Version="2.0.0" />
     <PackageReference Include="LightInject.WebApi" Version="2.0.0" />
     <PackageReference Include="log4net" Version="2.0.8" />
+    <PackageReference Include="Log4Net.Async" Version="2.0.4" />
     <PackageReference Include="Markdown" Version="2.2.1" />
     <PackageReference Include="Lucene.Net" Version="3.0.3" />
     <PackageReference Include="Microsoft.AspNet.Identity.Core" Version="2.2.1" />